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Irksome - The Mad Ramblings of Nchanter [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
Nchanter

[ website | nchanted.net ]
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Irksome [Mar. 20th, 2005|02:54 pm]
Nchanter
[emotional state |annoyedannoyed]

So I haven't made a post like this in a while, which is a good sign. I'm sorry I'm makeing one now, but this is *really* starting to piss me off. Yes, I've mentioned to this person (who hasn't been reading livejournal lately, but I'll be happy if he sees this and finally *gets the point*) that this action pisses me off, and they haven't stopped. So I feel like bitching about it, and I want to know if y'all think this is reasonable that this pisses me off.

A male friend of mine who I've been friends with for a number of years now often "teases" me saying "Don't you have an friends with normal names?" or "Do you have any friends that aren't Poly?" Now, first off, this boy has a good Christian name and isn't poly. So yes, I do. Second, he makes these comments when he askes what's been going on, and pushes the "what have you been up to" so i *tell* him, and these "weird" friends of mine with their unnatural names and their non-monogmous lifestyles come up, often. I spend more of my time with poly people these days than not. But yes, I still have friends with Christian names and who are in monogomous (or no) relationships.

I'm *really* ready to say "Well, apparently not, so I don't know what I'm doing talking to you," but he's someone I've been friends with a long time, and we've been through some shit togeather. (He helped me with dealing with my Dad's death, and I was around when his Mom died.) I don't know what else to do. He also recently went through a breakup of the most major relationship he's ever had, so I feel bad being mean to the guy, but if you're gonna piss me off...

I don't know. Thoughts?
linkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: grypes
2005-03-20 08:24 pm (UTC)
Do what I do. If you have terms set your terms clearly and if they aren't met , walk. ;-)

(just set your terms this time first)
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[User Picture]From: nchanter
2005-03-20 09:05 pm (UTC)
(just set your terms this time first)

:P
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[User Picture]From: mangosteen
2005-03-20 08:29 pm (UTC)
Well, a lot of this has to do with the implicit assumption that "everyone thinks like me because everyone I'm regularly in contact with does think like me."

A lot of people hit this wall somewhere around their freshman year, when their first ethnic joke that everyone at home thought was funny, falls disastrously flat.

A good first step would be to make him question his assumptions. By him saying "Don't you have any friends with normal names?", he pushes the burden of proof onto you to defend something. Don't let him. Respond with, for example, "I'm sorry, I don't quite follow. What's a normal name?" Let him justify his own assumptions, and get a little bit uncomfortable while doing so. It'll get the point across.

w/r/t the poly question, similarly, you can answer with a flat "Yes.", forcing him to drop the question or follow it up. Alternately, you can ask him the same question, have him respond, and then follow up with "how do you know?" Once again, forcing him to examing his assumptions.

Hope this helps.
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[User Picture]From: nchanter
2005-03-20 09:04 pm (UTC)
Well, a lot of this has to do with the implicit assumption that "everyone thinks like me because everyone I'm regularly in contact with does think like me."

That's the weird thing, this kid is in Art School in Brooklyn (Pratt) and hangs out in an artsy/gothy crowd. He grew up around Boston. It's not like this is one of my friends from Virginia (all of whom i have left are horribly liberal and/or really fucking open minded) who hasn't been exposed to this shit. This boy has dated poly-girls before, not counting me, and knows other people who are. We're not talking about some ignorant redneck or some narrow minded suburban prep either. I think that's what's bothering me so much about it.

I'm starting to think, looking over the few comments I have recieved so far, that there isn't much that will help. I'm not ready to end our friendship over this, but it makes me want to go out of my way less for him. (Eg: next time I head down to NYC *not* makeing a detour to Brooklyn for him.)

I should also keep in mind that he thinks I'm too young to move in with my boyfriend, and really doesn't agree with poly in general. Maybe it's a matter of just recognizeing that he's not gonna approve of what I do, and that I don't really care. I mean, I'm not gonna change my actions just because he doesn't think my actions are "right," especially when I know they are "right for me, atleast right now."

This is just forceing me to think about things I really don't want to right now.

Hope this helps.

Yea, it did. I can't exactly explain how, but it did.
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[User Picture]From: theobviouschild
2005-03-21 12:23 am (UTC)

The question of the day.

Is everyone from the ages of 18 to 29 a moral relativist? If not, it seems like they're pulling their beliefs from some 2000+ year old patriarchy. I'd like to meet someone who can defend their beliefs without saying either "well, it's right for me." or "well, God says it's alright, so it must be."


In "The Brothers Karakov," Dostoevsky says "Without God, all things are possible." I'm tired of people adopting this as ethics, because it makes any mass murderer as unaccountable for his or her decisions as you are for yours. I'm sure Timothy McVeigh thought what he was doing was "right for him, at least right now." Hell, it's just about as spineless as adopting the pope's ethics, especially if you're only going to do it as long as it's convenient.

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[User Picture]From: asciikitty
2005-03-21 01:28 am (UTC)

Re: The question of the day.

but in this case "right for me. at least right now" isn't morally right (or not right)

it emtionally right, and logistically right, and morals have very little to do with it. there's nothing that liveing with or not living with her boyfriend will change as far as things that people think of as immoral.

so the question of "Too young" becomes "is she old enough to know what she wants" and that must be relative. Nchanter and I are in roughly the same place in our lives as far as being old enough to know what we want, and she's younger than I am. But she's not moving too fast, and neither am I moving too slowly.

"right for me, at least right now" is a valid thing to say, and talking about the validity or lack thereof of moral relativism is almost tangential.

sorry if this is incoherent. i'm not well rested just now.
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[User Picture]From: theobviouschild
2005-03-21 02:04 am (UTC)

Re: The question of the day.

So Kris doesn't have an obligation to act morally? I don't think that cohabitation is immoral, I'm also not about to say she should get married before she does so, because that's bullshit. The poly thing is another thing entirely, but I'm not going to critisize it, especially to anyone but her, and certainly not over LJ.
But she still must either claim (a) morallity is bunk and neither I, nor anyone else, can be held accountable for our actions because morallity is simply something the establishment imposes on us, or (b) morallity is something very real, and I must justify my actions against my own moral code or someone else's moral code.
Every action is a question of morallity. Whenever someone says action x or lifestyle x is right or wrong, they are making a statement about morals. Kris can't say she knows that the life she leads is right for her, at least right now, without being able to justify it morally. Unless she appeals to moral relativism, in which case she's saying that anything is right for anyone if they're being honest with themselves. This is a fair thing to claim, but claiming it is dangerous when applauding or condemning anyone else's actions.
She can say it feels right, and then no one else would be able to speculate as to what was really going on, because who could contest with the nchanter's own statements, barring any sort of mind-jacking.
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[User Picture]From: grypes
2005-03-21 02:23 am (UTC)

Re: The question of the day.

I'm a bit confused. You don't want people to stand by thier convictions without the reason being "it's right for me." ?

What kind of fucked up logic are you using where you stand by your beliefs because they aren't right for you?

I have a lot of very solid beliefs and every single one of them I concluded on my own to be true. All of my actions based on said beleifs are don't for my own good. I can't think of any other way to exaplin why I believe what I believe. I can go into more detail and give you my psychological, sociological, theologocial and scientific reasons for why I do what I do and believe what I believe but in the end it all boils down to the fact that all of it was settled based on it being right for me.
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[User Picture]From: moonshadow
2005-03-20 09:12 pm (UTC)
I was going to comment on your post, but it seems mangosteen has said everything I would have said.
Put the burden back on him. Make him justify his intolerance rather than letting him make you justify your life.

I have gone through this a number of times. Sometimes people just grow apart. Or, you grow and change and they don't. It's always hard, but sometimes you just have to let go.

*hugs*
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[User Picture]From: katkt
2005-03-20 08:33 pm (UTC)

Some thoughts from fairly far away

Yes, it's reasonable that you're upset. That certainly sounds to me like a pejorative use of the word weird - and his disparaging you, your friends, and the life you choose to live, even in that small indirect way, is certainly a normal thing to be upset by. It makes me vaguely irritated on your behalf that he continues to do it despite your asking him not to.

IMO, You need to explain to him that this is the life you live and you're happy with it. And you want him to be part of it, but if he's going to mock you when you talk about some parts of your life then you aren't going to want to share them with him. And ... somehow make sure he really gets that. And if, at that point, he doesn't either stop or talk to you directly about what his issues with the situation are, then you've grown too far apart...

I'm sorry to hear about your father (and his mother). That's hard. Good luck keeping your friend.
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[User Picture]From: cos
2005-03-21 01:37 am (UTC)
One thing I wonder that's hard to tell from reading about it rather than being there for it: Is he being earnest, or trying to tease you? And if in earnest, is it puzzlement, or criticism?
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[User Picture]From: nchanter
2005-03-21 02:28 am (UTC)
A male friend of mine who I've been friends with for a number of years now often "teases" me saying "Don't you have an friends with normal names?" or "Do you have any friends that aren't Poly?"

That means he claims he's teasing me. He gave me some bullshit reasons for saying those things, most haveing to do with his unhappyness at being single again. I think it's a bit of both.
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[User Picture]From: moxie77
2005-03-21 02:11 am (UTC)
hey, you have me! i might not understand (not really the word i'm looking for, but whatever) certain aspects of you lifestyle, but that doesn't mean i would ever look down upon you for it...i'm sure you feel that same way about my lifestyle. i dunno. everybody is different and has different ideals. you don't criticize him, so he has no right to do that to you. a lot of people i consider 'friends' 'poke fun' at me all the time. they tell me i look like a fish thats been hooked or other silly things. i don't expect all my friends to be modified, but i'd like them to treat me with the same respect i show them. i don't know if this made any sense...oh, and my name might not be super common, but its not 'abnormal' so there!
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[User Picture]From: nchanter
2005-03-21 02:30 am (UTC)

*poke*

You should be on AIM right now 'cause I'd like to talk with you about this...
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[User Picture]From: ellydragon
2005-03-21 05:02 pm (UTC)
Well, on the friends thing (morals and all completely aside), have you told him that it hurts your feelings? A lot of times people who we think know us really well don't know when the make comments that we either don't really think are funny or actually makes us upset. For some reason (no judgement here) especially boys. A lot of the time if you just tell them how it makes you feel, they cut it out.

And I obviously don't need to comment on the being too young to move in together. ;P Plus, I think Draxus is a great guy. :)
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